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IMHO I think that as it is now (CIn_20201028 by testing) is pretty good. It is more clear for me, but I don't know if it is good for a native English/US User. About Andrea_Paz photomontage (in https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=516#c4300 ), for me two options, "Proxy 1:1"and "Proxy" to say Proxy have not sense, sorry. I understand you want separate the two functions but it is more important to know you are using (or less) Rescale version or not. Eventually to facilitate understanding even more, an hint could be shown when the pointer is over the "Rescaled to Project size" option (following an example, keep in mind my bad English, please): CHECKED: Good for many uses BUT needed cpu performance. UNCHECKED: Good for save cpu performance and old computers BUT some Effects can not work as expected. |
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@Andrea_Paz As far as I'm concerned, I find your proxy window proposal clear and precise. Moreover, being totally different from the traditional cinelerra structure, it avoids any misunderstanding. |
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@IgorBeg All that got changed in today's GIT is: "Don't resize Project" to "Rescaled to Project Size" and "Auto proxy/scale media loads" to "Creation of proxy on media loading". GG wanted to work on other things so no other changes made. |
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@Andrea_Paz I would not change the manual yet -- too many good ideas still have to be evaluated and most likely the layout will change a little too. Especially like the idea of "ghosting" but I think GG already tried to do this and it was not easy. And for some odd reason the red color Video was a problem too but I will ask again. |
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I show more clearly my proposal. On the aesthetic side others will do better, what interests me is the clarity of use of the proxies' window. 1- When Proxy 1:1 is active Proxy is deactivated; and vice versa 2- The only way to maintain the original proportions is Proxy 1:1. In the main window there is the button "P1:1" (other proposals?) to enable/disable temporarily 3- When Proxy is active there is no longer the possibility to maintain the original size. This is the classic proxy concept. In the main window there is the "P" button to enable/disable temporarily (other proposals?) 4- Encoding via wrench is possible both in Proxy 1:1 and in Proxy 5- To exit the proxy mode permanently there is the "Clear Proxies" button; both in Proxy 1:1 and in Proxy In short, my idea is to clearly separate the two modes because they are very different. What do you think? PS: Phyllis, let me know when you consider the work on the proxies finished, that I start putting the changes on the manual.
proxies.png (49,298 bytes) |
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Mmh, I don't like your suggestion @Andrea_Paz, sorry. It is better with 1:1 in the pulldown menu, at this point. Consider that the new "Don't resize project" checkbox is the old "Use Scaler". If you erase this option and you keep only "Use Scaler" (hidden) I couldn't use Cinelerra anymore because I always use Proxy WITHOUT Scaler. My computers are old. |
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@IgorBeg If you are satisfied with it! :-) (When Proxy 1 : 1 is checked then it is ghosting the Scale; and vice versa)
proxy.png (88,788 bytes) |
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@Andrea_Paz Could you make a sketch, please? @PhyllisSmith About "red colour text, "Video", and I would put the wrench icon on the right side of the Down Arrow "Set ffmpeg file type" I understand you , but I don't think that that can help the User. An User usually learn by him/her/self, by Manual, by other User(video/forum). The wrench icon could be changed to cogs icon, as sometime you can find in another program. Anyway the user must do a little effort, and the learning curve is very high for Cinelerra as for other NLEs, see Lightworks and DaVinciResolve (I think). |
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OK, so Proxy 1:1 is exactly the Transcode. It takes all media into Resources and turns them into Proxy 1:1. Then, by pressing "P" (or "S"?) we can enable/disable the proxy at will. Right? Instead with the Scaler we can do downsize together with the Transcode. For clarity, I propose the following GUI: 1- Delete the "Don't resize Project" checkbox (if possible). 2- Offer a "Proxy 1:1" (or "Transcode") checkbox separate from the "Scaler" pulldown. 3- The pulldown menu for the "Scale factor". 4- A button to return to the original sources (Disable or Off or Clear proxy, etc). I guess I ask the impossible! :-) |
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@Andrea_Paz The sole purpose of Proxy 1:1 is the save CPU usage, just as proxy 1/2, etc. does. On the other hand, Transcode is very useful for "mkv" input media which may not have any GOP so hard to seek. The usefulness of 1:1 is you can convert a high quality (i.e. high bitrate) video to a much, much lower bitrate, then edit the file in this proxy mode and have all of the edits apply to the high quality original video. You can not have any edits to a Transcode file apply to the original. In addition, the edited output media is in the original format provided whereas a Transcode most likely is not. Remember the mpeg format for a proxy file is just the default; you can use mp4 or whatever else is available and lower the bitrate as low as allowed. About "How does the "Don't resize project" work instead? Doesn't it become useless with the Proxy 1:1?" You are right, it is useless and GG thought about ghosting it out but it was not easy to do so if anyone checks this box, it will just be multiplied by 1 so nothing changes. @IgorBeg We will try to change "Don't resize Project" and "Auto proxy/scale media loads" to something more meaningful. About "red colour text, "Video", and I would put the wrench icon on the right side of the Down Arrow "Set ffmpeg file type"." This needs to be very visible for new users and it is much more important now that 1:1 exists because this is the only way to lower the bitrate as much as desired. The wrench where Sam had it was almost unnoticeable and no one would even think to click on it unless you were familiar with its use elsewhere. |
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IMHO Proxy 1:1 is useless but if other Users needed it, OKAY: my hands up. ;-) @Andrea_Paz "Don't resize Project" is the new word instead of "Use scaler". And with Proxy 1:1 it doesn't matter if you use or less, I think. The English is not my first language but I don't like the sentence "Don't resize Project (FFMPEG only)", sorry. It adds more confusion, again. At this point I preferred the sentence "Use Scaler" or, as somebody (Sam, Andrea_Paz,...?) said, "Re-Scaled to Project Size". For me even the sentence "Auto proxy/scale media loads" is not clear; what about "Creation of proxy on media loading"? As all photomontages of Sam showed I would delete the red colour text, "Video", and I would put the wrench icon on the right side of the Down Arrow "Set ffmpeg file type". Good for me the Slider and its enable/disable button for the Volume. Thanks! |
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I don't really understand how Proxy 1:1 works. It keeps the original geometry and then we can go to set the codec (for example lowering the bitrate compared to the default which is mpeg at 2Mbps)? How does the "Don't resize project" work instead? Doesn't it become useless with the Proxy 1:1? |
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@PhyllisSmith First of all, a big thank you for GG's work and for your explanations. As you know, I use cinelerra for film editing using openEDL. Of course, any improvement to relieve the CPU is welcome. But as you said in your last message, the 1:1 proxy seems to go in that direction. I can't wait to see the new version of cinelerra coming out in a week. |
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@quintao GG has added a 1:1 proxy selectable option. We want to thank you for explaining the usability of this option as we had not understood its virtue until you went into detail about its usefulness. In testing, I took the "4k Cows webm" file and just played it. In doing so, it used 240-350% cpu. After Proxying to 1:1 using ffmpeg/mpeg format, it only used 59 % cpu -- that is a significant savings in videos like that. This has been checked into GIT and will be in the next build on October 31. For early testers there is a Mint 18 and Ubuntu 16 static tar available at: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-static.txz https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-static.txz @fary54 It is possible that when you use OpenEDL and then do a proxy, the 1:1 option may be useful if it lowers the bitrate of your video, thus using less cpu. This will avoid the scale/format problem as reported in the issue 0000440 "Bug in Proxy ?" @Sam @IgorBeg The menu layout has been changed to better match what Sam suggested with input from Andrea, IgorBeg, Pierre, quintao. But it does not match exactly due to space considerations and wording. @Andrea_Paz I am hoping this meets with everyone's approval so that the manual can be updated after there is consensus. |
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I find the topic interesting. One more opinion: https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/which-format-should-i-choose-for-proxies/td-p/4788720 |
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Actually, now that I think about it again, dimensions don't really make a difference - whether down-size or kept at original. I did an experiment, I rendered the same clip of 2560p mp4, 32sec to 1Mbps, at different scales: render @ file size Mb 2560p 3.47 1920p 3.51 1280p 3.59 720p 3.64 playback of each at fullscreen looked identical (pretty lossy). In my opinion, it matters only what bitrate you tell FFmpeg to use - which means large size at 1Mbps will look lossy, but the smaller you go, still at 1Mbps, the better the video looks because the video is going to give you 1Mb of data per sec, and at a large dimension that is very spread out, but on a small format that means the data is compact - but when you stretch it out the small video to equal the large dimension it will look identical and play the same. This is not to start a debate, but you can tell me if I got it wrong. |
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Alright, I think you win Igor and Sam. I will be happy with 1/2 scaling. Sam said: "but the achieved minimization of the file size is not as large as the reduction of the resolution." and there we have it, the reason scaling is a good idea! But I won't use anything smaller than 1/2 as blowing up again I fear there is a noticeable downgrade in Q, I think. I was trying to say in my posts that there will be 2x times Q loss with downscale then stretching back - and to avoid bad loss of Q you would need a high bitrate proxy, right? What bitrate do you people set in FFmpeg? I would set low bitrate, as low as can bear or use in editing, 1Mbps or less, and then making the proxies for 30 or 40 clips will be quite fast. I like the idea of proxies, even for 1080p on a 16 core Ryzen 3rd Gen, because playing them creates 30%-40% cpu usage which is unnecessary. I think actually it's because I have overclocked the cpu -good for renders- which forces its power on everything. |
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@IgorBeg I too do not understand this debate. Like you, I use proxy 1/2 to test the fluidity of the editing and transitions of my edits longer than an hour. Only then I remove the proxy to place my text and make the final rendering. So personally, I don't see the point of having a 1:1 proxy. |
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Sorry, but I really don't understand and Sam explained very well "Here is a little feedback regarding proxies." Maybe I don't understand because my computer is not powerful. What is the reason to have a Proxy Scale 1:1 with lower bitrate? Better Performance on computer? Wouldn't it be better to use Proxy Scale 1/2 with "Use Scaler" and a "good" bitrate, instead of? On the Description of the quintao's issue is written: then, if I only check on 'use proxies', the scale is not changed, only the bitrate of video is reduced in the new proxy files. Then possibly, rendering the project will have no problem - will render 1:1 scale. Note. If we make a Render with Proxy enabled, then Render will use Proxy files. But I think that User (and quintao) know it. Sometimes it is good to use Proxy files to make a fast Rendering and seeing how the output (cuts, transitions) works. If it seems good, then you will make the final Rendering. |
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@quintao OK. About "Proxy confusion" original issue, gg and I have finally understood what the problem really is. In fact, Olaf brought this up a long time ago but we misinterpreted and ended up with Transcode. You simply want a lower bitrate without being scaled down so want 1 instead of 1/2...etc. Unfortunately, we did not consider this case when the Proxy feature was re-implemented from the HV code. The number "1" was reserved for non-proxy mode and this is saved in the EDL, i.e. old, existing XML project files. It would have been better to use a bit designated as "is_proxy" instead of the number 1 but changing this now might break old sessions. However, GG thinks it is possible to implement the bitrate change only but as usual, will have to look at the code first and determine how much breakage this would create. About the menu layout change, I have read all of the notes and think we can come up with a layout based on everyone's concerns while still making sense to GG. BTW, attached is the orginal menu from HV.
hv.png (19,237 bytes) |
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Here is a little feedback regarding proxies. Most other video editing programs also have the proxy feature. It was introduced to allow for a smoother timeline experience. Full HD and everything from 4K size up are usually very large in file size. These large files cause performance problems on weaker PCs. As a solution the developers have introduced proxies to reduce the file size. Reduced means to minimize the resolution/dimension, as usually not the full resolution is needed, because the compositor usually takes only a fraction of the computer screen. Therefore the scaling factor, which indicates how much the original resolution should be reduced. When rendering, the original resolution will be used to avoid loss of image quality. There is also the possibility of converting an uncompressed or inefficient file format into a highly compressed file format, without changing the dimension, but the achieved minimization of the file size is not as large as the reduction of the resolution. I would name the option as follows: From "Blow up to source dimensions" to "Stretch downscaled file to source dimension." |
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I think, we (may be, only me) are missing the focus, here. Or I don't understand anything. Proxy is a low quality/low resolution to make editing in a fluid way due to poor cpu performance or/and bad Media for editing. To do that NLEs change the size and bitrate. If your media are no good for editing we may use Transcode feature without any lose of quality (depends from the settings) - In post above quintao said: "What I was trying to point out was the inability in Proxy settings dialogue to turn ON proxies, but NOT scale down the dimensions (so keep 1080 for example, same as source)" - In post above quintao said: " I don't need to use transcoding as my source files are good formats for editing." Then I don't understand because you (quintao) are using Proxy when your Media is good and Computer is powerful. (sorry for bad English) |
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How about this: ________________________________ [_] Scale down media Scale factor: [_____1/2________] [_] Blow up to source dimensions [_] No Scaling [_] Auto proxy media File format: [____________________________] ____________________________________________ [_] Beep on done Volume ---------------<>----------------- ___________________________________________ OK X |
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Igor said: Changing to lower bitrate, the quality may be lost. Do you mean that we should select high bitrate for proxies? What about the time factor in creating the proxies? Sorry, I thought you meant quality problems in Render, did you mean quality in the compositor window for editing? And my other question below? |
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Maybe you are missing something or I don't understand. Remember, or you already know, that you must DISABLE Proxy before to make a Render, otherwise Cinelerra-GG will use Proxy format like Render output. |
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Maybe they do, without even asking! I always thought it was only a bitrate reduction. How will Q be lost in render when its the original files used for rendering? And how do you proxy without scaling? |
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quintao, for what I know, all NLEs I know use Proxy like Cinelerra-GG do. I can wrong. Changing to lower bitrate, the quality may be lost. For the quality you can change the parameter in File format. Consider that I always use Proxy WITHOUT Scaler. ;-) |
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This way deals with "scale" confusion..... Scale down media [_] Scale factor: [_____1/2________] Fake dimensions to fit source [_] File format: [____________________________] Auto proxy media [_] |
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Use scaling down [_] Scale factor: [_____1/2________] Rescale to original dimensions [_] File format: [____________________________] Auto proxy media [_] |
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A lot of good discussion! My main issue was that I couldn't do any proxies without scaling down. This is because if I have some heavy files, I know that creating 1Mbps proxies will sort them out, they will play smoothly for editing, or won't cause the CPU fan to whir! If I use scaling there can be a dramatic loss of video quality that I didn't expect - just compare 1/2 and 1/32 ! But perhaps you all have use for scaling, I don't know. For me proxy means LOW BITRATE copies. To me, scaling down a video to a small scale factor obviously helps playback, because the new file has less data to process. But visually, it is only good at the scaled down size. If you blow it up back to the original dimensions it will look awful, as it goes through 2x quality loss (well 1/2 scale is bearable). So, to view my video files in original dimensions, I don't want to scale down first (unless it was done lossless somehow), I just want to reduce bitrate. Therefore, if it is a simple project, scaling down (without scaling back up) could work, and you just zoom in on the Compositor window. But for complex work, I wouldn't want to touch scaling, just use a lower bitrate. Also, transcoding for me means conversion of file formats that is not playable or can't be easily cut and joined during render - but for me, that was back in the days when Linux programs struggled with AVCHD. ..... On the dialogue design, if I may contribute... So "Disabled" option removes need for checkbox "Use scaler" but with the option Disabled, can I check "Auto proxy" check box? I think the idea here is that proxies must be scaled down! If not how will I get proxies of lower bitrate without scaling going on too? Personally, I would have left a checkbox at top, ""Use scaling down" [viewing will be re-scaled to original source dimensions]" Then the options, with 1/2 as 1st option Then Auto proxies below on same vertical as Use scaling checkbox So the dialogue has two main decisions - Scaling and Auto, both independent of each other If I don't select scaling, I may still select Auto proxies and have ffmpeg do its magic. Don't know if I'm making sense? |
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Okay. Here mi idea/layout, and it may be no good like Sam Layout. It is only a idea/demo. I added an animated GIF. I try to explain. 1. On the Top of the window a Checkbox button to Enable/Disable Proxy. So you can always see the parameters below. 2. The Proxy icon (if possible technically) indicates the state of the Proxy: No Proxy, Proxy Enabled and Active, Proxy Standby. I would like that that icon would work like it works in timeline window. But maybe it create confusion/mistake, I don't know. 3. Two Radio buttons. Only one is active. 4. PullDown menu shows the options starting from 1/2 (or I think it is the first option): "Disable" or "Project size" there isn't. It would work as now due to the two Radio buttons. 5. If the User no change the parameters, the Default is: "Re-Scaled to Project Size" and "Scale Factor"=the second option of the list (1/3 for 1920x1080). Of Course, Cinelerra-GG remember/save the parameters Maybe "File Format" bar is too much on the Layout. If my idea don't like, we could add to Sam Layout only the area above "Proxy type" area. Maybe I have forgotten something else.
Cin_20201005_ProxySettings_window_b-animated.gif (79,761 bytes) |
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@Pierre I understand your argumentation and it makes sense. Unfortunately I can't think of a better term. Maybe Phyllis and GG have an idea for a better term. They are certainly better than me in English. ;-) |
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@Sam I really like your proposal, except for one thing... You use the term "rescaled" in the "Scale factor" choice list (which is very appropriate in this context). But then there is the box "Show 'Re-Scaled to Project Size' only. Maybe it's my poor understanding of the English language that's playing a trick on me here... but this word "Re-Scaled" makes me think that this option is used to disable the rescaled choice from the previous options menu. |
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@IgorBeg I like the revised layout. +1 |
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WOW Sam! It is excellent idea! I like it. I hope it may be implemented by GG. I changed, quickly, a bit your "Proxy_window_1.6.jpg"
Sam_Proxy_window_1.6a.jpg (32,737 bytes) |
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I think I have found the solution, if GG can technically implement it. Instead of showing two different drop down menus, only one drop down is shown, which shows both options. The option without scaler is greyed out. Only when I deactivate the protection button "Show "Re-Scaled to Project Size" only" the greyed out scaling factors will be available as an option. With this slight modification we have added a protection feature. The new user will see at a glance there are more options available, but for some reason some factors have been greyed out. Next, the new user will want to click on the button "Re-Scaled to Project Size" and your warning message will be displayed. At this point the new user knows, okay I have to be careful, otherwise some plugins will not work properly. Professionals like you can disable this option by default and choose between the different options.
Proxy_window_1.7.jpg (30,914 bytes)
Proxy_window_1.6.jpg (31,947 bytes) |
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Sorry, a few of personal problem here. I hope to show You a possible Layout, tomorrow. (and it may be no good like Sam's Layout/idea). I would write "Re-Scaled to Project Size" or "Re-Sized to Project Size" instead of "Preserve Aspect Ratio". So the User should understand what it mean something more (?) Sam, I understand you about to put the PullDown menu on the top. But as I wrote before in #0004154 if your Project format is 1280x720 you would find the second item of the pulldown menu to be 1/3 With Scaler and 1/4 with No Scaler. Could it be a problem (by Coder/code side and/or by User side)? I don't know. Proxy Without Scaler is a problem also for other Effects, not only for Title. For example Blur Effect. For me it would be good a kind of Warning or an yellow hint like Sam said/wrote. I would put a message with red colour "Warning: Some Effects (Title) can not work as expected" when Proxy without Use Scaler is used. |
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Here is a summary of all suggestions for renaming the misleading term "Use scalers". UPDATE: Re-Scaled to Project Size Re-Sized to Project Size Preserve frame geometry Preserve Aspect Ratio Display compensation Screen correction Display compensation to source size Display adjustment to original size Display at source dimensions Display at source size Correct display ratio I like Andrea's suggestion best. What do the others say? |
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@IgorBeg On point 1, I agree with you. On point 2, I disagree. The main function, the most important step, is the activation of the proxies. That two different scaling factors, depending on which scaler method I use, change from the third digit after the value of 1/3 is not relevant to use this feature. In most cases with new users 1/2 and 1/3 will be absolutely sufficient. The most important point is that the users know that the Title Plugin is negatively affected by this is much more important, as this ticket proves. Nobody has complained about the different scaling factors so far. To avoid that new users have to decide first if they want to use the scaler, it is better to move this option to the second position. What good are the scaling factors (without scaler) if I can't use the Title Plugin properly? Therefore it is not the most important step and in my opinion it should be set to second place and scaler as default. This is to avoid that the new user deactivates it by mistake. We can add a help text, which describes that they change the scaling factors. The help text could look like this: Other scaling factors available by deactivating this option. Deactivating this option affects the display of the Title Plugin. UPDATE: I am looking forward to your layout, if you want to do the work. As I said in a previous post, it was only a first draft.
Proxy_window_1.4.jpg (31,531 bytes)
Proxy_window_1.5.jpg (37,470 bytes) |
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I remember to You (all of you) a few of things. 1. Active Scale: 1/[x] (or 1/4, or 1/8, ...) texts is needed (fundamental, I would say) when you disable temporary Proxy (in SUV theme, you can see the P icon in colour dark grey). It is needed to know what type of Scale (rate) you are using (and files were been created). 2. The items of the PullDown menu change if you are using Scaler or NO Scaler. Two example, Format Project 1920x1080: - WITH Use scaler: 1/2, 1/3, 1/8, 1/12, .... - NO Use Scaler: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, ... Format Project 1280x720: - WITH Use scaler: 1/2, 1/3, 1/8, 1/12, .... - NO Use Scaler: 1/2, 1/4, 1/5, 1/8, ... So, the User must before choose if She/He want the Scaler or Not before using the PullDown menu. I think this option should stay on the top of the window. 3. Like Sam I don't like Pot (the knob). Like Sam, I would prefer the Slider with a checkbox to enable/disable it. I need more time to think a possible, other, or similar to Sam Layout. |
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"Preserve frame geometry" ? |
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"Preserve Aspect Ratio" ? |
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How close is note 4143 png to meeting everyone's expectations? so that I can let GG know to start looking at it. |
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I like your suggestions. I've added a few more here just to brainstorm a little bit. Let's see what the others like or if they have any other suggestions. Display compensation Screen correction Display compensation to source size Display adjustment to original size |
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Or to avoid the repetition of the word size... "Display at source dimensions" instead |
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How about "Display at source size" instead |
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That would look like this:
Proxy_window_1.3.jpg (41,357 bytes) |
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Maybe we could name the Scaler option as follows: "Keep display ratio to original size " or "Correct display ratio" |
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@Pierre You are right, now I understand your concerns. These terms can lead to confusion. I have no idea which terms would be more appropriate, since English is not my native language. Maybe Phyllis can help us? |
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@Sam Your idea to make the checkbox gray if "disabled" is selected in "Scale factor" is excellent and very logical. But when you think about it, I think it's the "scaler" term in the "Use scaler" checkbox that causes the problem... The word Scale is used here for two opposite purposes; "Scale factor" aims at DECREASING the image dimensions, while "Use scaler" aims at NEUTRALIZING its apparent effect and presenting an image that seems to conform to the original. This is a false repetition of purpose... but I don't have enough mastery of the English language to find a more appropriate term. |
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@Pierre I have a suggestion. In my picture below you can see that if number one is disabled, the checkbox number two for the scaler is disabled, but this option is pre-selected. Only if number three is set to a scale factor for example 1/2 or higher, number four is shown as selectable. A help text is also displayed. With the note "Disabling this option affects the Title Plugin. This keeps the aesthetics of my layout suggestion and minimizes the risk that the scaler option is inadvertently disabled by new users. Would this be an option like I have shown in the image? If I have misunderstood your motives why the Scaler option should be on top, please give me a short feedback so I can better understand. Maybe we can find a better design that will satisfy all users. Thanks in advance.
Proxy_window_1.2.png (40,272 bytes) |
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@ Sam Your justifications are good, so I can adhere to this particular logic which aims to limit the problems related to the Tiltle plugin. However I remain concerned about the impression of a repetition of a command related to Scale factor "disabled" and a "Use scaler" button that can be deselected... which seems repetitive of the same purpose in appearance. |
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@Pierre Thanks for your feedback. Such considerations are absolutely good to achieve the best results together. My considerations were as follows. Exactly for the reasons you mentioned I put it in second place. A new user will be tempted to try this option first, but he doesn't really understand the consequences if he deactivates it. This is exactly what led to the opening of this ticket and the problem with the title plugin. I was not aware of this problem and was surprised when I deactivated this option that it can lead to such problems with the title plugin. Therefore I suggested to leave the scaler enabled by default and put it in second place. A new user will then try the scale factor first to see what happens. The scale factor starts the whole action and not the option of the scaler. In my opinion this arrangement helps to avoid more user errors. Let's be honest a new user will first click around to see what happens. Better then as first option let the Scale Factor change, because this is the most important task of the whole window. Based on these considerations I have created this layout. It's just a first draft until there is enough feedback to improve it. |
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@Sam I appreciate the aesthetic improvement that you propose. But, Scale factor "disabled" and a "Use scaler" button that can be deselected... seems repetitive to me. Secondly it would surely be less aesthetic, but the "Use scaler" button is fundamental and determining... so it should appear at the top of the window as the first configuration option. |
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Here a before and after comparison.
Proy_window_before_after.jpg (69,170 bytes) |
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Unfortunately I could not follow the discussion so far due to lack of time. After some consideration, I can understand quintao's argumentation. For the user it would be more understandable if instead of "original size" it said "disabled". In the course of my efforts to improve the design of Cinelerra and the acceptance by the users, I took the liberty to slightly rework the layout of the proxy window. It keeps approximately the same size, so there should be no problems even with smaller screen sizes. I just changed the layout a little bit. Here are a few small hints: 1. I have removed the label "original size", because it leads to confusion. It is better to write disabled, that every new user understands 2. I have removed the label "active scale factor", this is self-explanatory with the dropdown menu 3. Also removed the label "Video". It was much too big. I simply attached the symbol like in the picture beside it 4. About the volume wheel. I am sorry, but it is just ugly. A volume slider just looks better. I also added an on/off button. Sometimes I need this notification, but I don't want to keep adjusting the volume, so I just press the button. 5. in my opinion the Scaler Button should by default be activated. New users will use the default settings and will not have the problem with the title plugin. If you do not need the Scaler option you can disable it. This way the window would finally look much more appealing and structured.
Proxy_window.png (38,112 bytes) |
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quintao, we can discuss about Layout/Graphic of the "Proxy settings" window, but how it works is right as it is so, for me. The "Original size" option is needed to restore the Proxy to the Original size. When you set a Proxy (for example: Proxy 1/4, NO Scaler), a "P" icon on the top-right of the Main (Program/Timeline) window is shown. If you click on that icon, Proxy is disable and you can understand it because the P icon is dark-grey colour (I am using SUV theme). When you disable Proxy (P icon dark-grey colour) Cinelerra-GG remember your Proxy Setting (in this example 1/4) and you can see it in the "Proxy settings" window: - Scale factor: Original Scale (PullDown button) - New media dimensions: width x height - Active Scale: 1/4 quintao wrote: "BTW I don't need to use transcoding as my source files are good formats for editing." Okay. So, I am wearing because you need Proxy. I don't understand. @Sam I love your Proxy icons in SUV theme. |
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To me it seems illogical for the Proxy settings to give option of "Original size" which actually disables proxies. Only the options of scaling allow proxies to be made at all. BTW I don't need to use transcoding as my source files are good formats for editing. |
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Today, my time is out. Sorry @quintao and Community. |
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Scaler mean reduced dimensions but stretched to original dimension? Exactly! |
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I think I missed the point! Scaler mean reduced dimensions but stretched to original dimension? |
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I understand you but... "The reason for that is I need the original dimensions to work with, eg for adding titles." Consider that Proxy with Scaler was born for that (minimum Scale is 1/2). You can use Scaler when you needed that all the Plugins work correctly or at least I think so. What is the reason to use a Proxy with the same Scale of the source? To change its codec/bitrate? Transcode... in Settings pull down menu was born for it, I think. Unfortunately I have to use Proxy without Scaler, so I have to use a workaround to use Title plugin, for example. |
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Yes I understand that proxies are good for the CPU while editing. And this is a very important feature, especially with heavy source files. What I was trying to point out was the inability in Proxy settings dialogue to turn ON proxies, but NOT scale down the dimensions (so keep 1080 for example, same as source) The reason for that is I need the original dimensions to work with, eg for adding titles. For me I can't check the box 'Auto proxy' if I leave 'scale factor' at original size, it won't respond and that is the main problem. thanks |
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Sorry, I don't know what your goal is exactly but you can use Menu-> Settings-> Transcode... Of course Cinelerra-GG will use the transcode files version on the timeline and also for Render. This feature is useful if yours video have long GOP or their format/codec are no good for editing. Usually Proxy (with Scaler or not) uses a smaller size format by the original to reduce cpu work. |
- Anonymous
