 |
Thank you for implementing this feature. It works as desired. I mark the ticket as done, but users can still add more notes if they still have problems or change requests. |
|
|
I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Now it's perfect. A quick move of the single clips, without double click is possible without any problems. Thank you very much. |
 |
Sam quote "easily grab individual clips with one click and drag them back and forth in the timeline." Latest GIT checkin should allow this again. Please keep reporting anomalies that make work more difficult -- the goal is to make it easier! (It is only 9:30 AM the day before Christmas here!) |
|
|
@IgorBeg Thx for the info, good to know. |
 |
Thanks Sam for the info about Streamable, I saw the options. I also linked the files to Datafilehost because the files are not converted to mp4 and if someone (I do not think) want use it, can use the source files (mmh,... 15fps, very bad). Thanks again. |
|
|
@IgorBeg Thank you very much for your contribution. In case it is not known yet. I just wanted to point out that you can also download the file at streamable. A right click on the video will bring you a context menu. There you will find the item "Download Video". ;-) Update: Sometimes you are redirected, on this new page then again opening the context menu shows the option "Save video as". |
|
|
First. GG/Phyllis, thanks a lot for all your hard work and for all the built you have done for me. I saw your reply to ML. Thanks. Igor quote "I would like that a little more users/people to do simulations, for that and others new features, and report their considerations." Phyllis wrote: "That has never happened. Even with the 200 people in the cv list, only a very few ever reported. I purposely added a topic to the forum to ask for help/feedback so new users could participate and there is 0 response." I am really sad for that. And I really hope more users come here and there. (Sorry for the Forum, I read the Forum but I am not registered, "too many place where to write") Sam wrote: "I have added a video that shows that Cinelerra was very well able to drag a single video with one click. In this video you can see that the other NLE's also do it this way. In the video you can see Cinelerra GG (November), Kdenlive, OpenShot, PP 2019"- I agree with Sam and, in the part of my screencast video "Timeline_Clips-SelectAndMove.ogv" from 7" to 15", you can see that I try, without succeeding, to drag with hold down LMB (Left Mouse Button ) a clip, without to select that clip before (in "Drag and Drop editing mode"). https://streamable.com/xfkkc source file: https://www.datafilehost.com/d/4d51f8a8 @Andrea Thanks for your contribute/opinion about. (I open a new thread in ML but only Phyllis wrote, for now) I need more time to test the new built. Thanks and... I join to Sam,... Merry Xmas! |
|
|
Thank you very much for your efforts, Phyllis & GG. I really don't want to annoy you, sorry that I can't finish this topic yet. But I ask you what is the reason why one-click activation is not possible? I'm asking because we had these options before. Previously I could easily grab individual clips with one click and drag them back and forth in the timeline. But this option has been removed and I feel that this is a step backwards because I have to change my workflow. I often rearrange clips and this has to be done quickly. At the moment it's not fast because I have to click twice on every single clip. With a few clips it's no problem either, I wouldn't insist, but with hundreds of smaller clips it's a nightmare. I have added a video that shows that Cinelerra was very well able to drag a single video with one click. In this video you can see that the other NLE's also do it this way. In the video you can see Cinelerra GG (November), Kdenlive, OpenShot, PP 2019, https://streamable.com/o4de0 Sorry that I'm probably annoying you, but I don't think it's right to add new features and remove proven ones. If multiple selection wouldn't work with the one-click option, I'll skip multiple selection in favor of one-click. Nevertheless, Merry Christmas to all and thank you for your tirelessly great work. |
|
|
Latest checkin to GIT contains a preference "Clears before toggle" - if checked, does it the IgorB preferred way and looks mostly like filebox; single click = single select, Ctrl-lmb = add to - if unchecked, continues the single click to select and add to (the less clicking way of gg/Phyllis/Sam) Igor quote "I would like that a little more users/people to do simulations, for that and others new features, and report their considerations." That has never happened. Even with the 200 people in the cv list, only a very few ever reported. I purposely added a topic to the forum to ask for help/feedback so new users could participate and there is 0 response. Andrea quote: "I like the click and drag of just the first edit and then use CTRL to expand the selection to other edits." Enable "Clears before toggle" in Settings->Preferences, Appearance tab on the right side. New builds are at: https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-ub16-x86_64-static.txz https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-mint18-x86_64-static.txz |
 |
Maybe it's better to spend the discussion in mailing-list (also to involve others) and return to MantisBT only when there is a clear idea of what to implement. I work with few edits and therefore I am not able to understand which of your proposals is better. I like the click and drag of just the first edit and then use CTRL to expand the selection to other edits. |
|
|
************************ ONLY in "Drag and Drop editing mode" in Timeline. - hold down LMB on a clip and drag, to select and move it ==> one click with drag one clip - click on a clip (without drag), Ctrl+LMB on another clips/group to multiple selectons. To moves the selections mouse over the selection and hold down LMB and drag. ======== That's exactly how I see it, only with two changes. First options: Double click activation, as it currently is. As I understood it, it would be important for GG & Phyllis to have this option. I only need the one-click variant. Second option: Multiple selection without CTRL (I find this variant very interesting) Both options can be disabled so that your described behavior applies. ************************ Should only be there in "Drag and Drop mode" the new features with MMB (Middle Mouse Button)? For me yes. In "Cut and Paste editing mode" in Timeline. it should work like in Cin-GG "built: Nov 29 2018". Do not drag&drop the clips but trimming, selections with i-beam and so on. I hope I have been more clear, now. I like and I need Drag&Drop but used with its tool, actived with arrow button in Main window. ======== I don't understand why this option should be removed? How does it affect if it is optional? If I don't want to use this option, I simply don't press the middle mouse button. I find it convenient that even in "Cut and Paste editing mode" I can quickly copy and paste a single clip without having to change the mode. I want to give the user the greatest possible variety. In context, taking this option away from the user means telling the user how to work. Maybe I misunderstood you. What advantage would it bring you to remove this option? I'm also very sorry for the inconvenience for the developers. Some issues need more explanation. |
|
|
Sam, I try to explain the steps (method) that would be good, I think. Let me know if I wrong, and if it is right for you (if others can say their even better), please: ONLY in "Drag and Drop editing mode" in Timeline. - hold down LMB on a clip and drag, to select and move it ==> one click with drag one clip - click on a clip (without drag), Ctrl+LMB on another clips/group to multiple selectons. To moves the selections mouse over the selection and hold down LMB and drag. Should only be there in "Drag and Drop mode" the new features with MMB (Middle Mouse Button)? For me yes. In "Cut and Paste editing mode" in Timeline. it should work like in Cin-GG "built: Nov 29 2018". Do not drag&drop the clips but trimming, selections with i-beam and so on. I hope I have been more clear, now. I like and I need Drag&Drop but used with its tool, actived with arrow button in Main window. Sorry for the developers if I always am a box breaker. Thanks. |
|
|
I understand Phyllis's argument, but also Igor's points. I have to agree with Igor that the current mouse behavior is not identical to any other NLEs. Just like Igor complains about it, other users will complain about it too. I like the current behavior of the multiple selections. What bothers me after some work in Cinelerra are the too many clicks to mark a clip and move it, I always need two clicks. With my average of 100 to 150 clips, the number of clicks is always double that of other NLEs. I think this topic will be a permanent one, because people have become very used to the other NLE's behaviour. I'd leave that decision to the user if it's about the settings. As a pro-user I want a NLE's that makes my life easier and with big video projects every click counts. I don't get the sense of accidentally moving, because I can undo every action with a UNDO. To protect the accidental move I double the number of clicks unnecessarily. 200 clips x 2 clicks = 400 clicks. Accidentally moving a clip would be solvable with an Undo key = 1 click. If I did it like the other NLE's, my number of clicks would look like this. 200 clips = 200 clicks + 1 undo click = 201 clicks. At Cinelerra I currently have to do 199 more clicks to get the same result. This is not a reasonable ratio. My suggestion would be as follows: To keep the current Cinelerra mouse behavior. To offer a second optional mouse behavior via the settings. This second mouse behavior is as Igor described it, in addition I only need one click to mark a clip and drag it. Is standard in all other NLEs. |
|
|
@PhyllisSmith IMHO, I do not like your mix "Drag and drop editing mode" with "Cut and paste editing mode" with the same functions (more or less). Their have different focus, then separate functions, for me. For me is a mistake that in "Cut and paste editing mode" I do double click on a clip and that clip is selected like in "Drag and drop editing mode". For the Ctrl key for multiple selections in "Drag and drop editing mode", it is not mine idea, but yours good first one (see 0000287 "- select the desired clips/edits with Ctrl-left mouse button"). You know that all software, and files managers, use the Ctrl or Shift (for continuos) keys for multiple selections, do not to move the selections. I would like that a little more users/people to do simulations, for that and others new features, and report their considerations. I do not want that a new function is added only because IgorBeg say "I would like ...", but because that feature has sense and it is helpful to more users: if my idea is implemented in Cin-GG, and it is used only by me then it is "wrong". Thanks. |
|
|
Sam - Fixed in latest GIT - you can no longer drag off the end to the left. Igor - "What do you think, please?" The new method of just click is so convenient that I am "insistent" that it be kept. It is much better (if too many users can not adjust I may have to re-think this). GG already used the Ctrl key for something else and you know how few shortcuts are left. It gives the users of I-beam mode an opportunity to do simple drags too as in: "You can also perform some dragging and grouping while in the Cut and Paste editing mode (ibeam mode) by taking advantage of the CTRL button in conjunction with the left mouse button. - Double click selects a column so you can move, for example, the audio and video together. - Ctrl-shift-click can be used to make a group and easily drag that." |
|
|
@IgorBeg Thanks :-) |
|
|
@Sam I use Datafilehost because I have some their stock market. Ahahah, I am joking. For me any host is fine, I just do not want to register/sign. I saw your suggested links don't need registration, then it's okay for me. Next time I will use their. Thanks Sam. |
|
|
The current behavior has a certain charm for me, but I agree with you that it is not comparable with the mouse behavior of other NLE's. I think it would be best for most users as IgorBeg described it. A left click marks only one clip/group at a time. CTRL + left mouse click extends the selection. Marked clips/groups can be dragged with a left mouse click. I would have only one request to you @IgorBeg Would it be possible for you to use another file service than Datafilehost? It took me 15 minutes to download the 8 MB file. Sometimes Datafilehost is not reachable at all. I can recommend the following free services, since the files are also stored permanently, which is good, so that people can follow in a few months what the ticket referred to: For pictures: https://imgbb.com/ For videos: https://streamable.com/ If you don't like these services, no problem. It's your decision. It would only be a bit more pleasant and easier for us than to get annoyed with Datafilehost. |
|
|
I think that single click for multiple selection is not good, sorry. Multiple selections of a few clips should be done with a key (before was Ctrl+LMB) To summarize: - one click over a clip, then only that clip will be selected (other selection will be cleared) - if I want to add other clips/groups (multiple selection) to the other selected clips (or the first one), a Ctrl+LMB is needed. - to move one or more clips/groups selected, only press and hold down LMB, and Drag&Drop. If possible, I think that that, for Sam and users, could be the right accomodation (at the end). What do you think, please? I added a screencast, for the single click on clips to show that multiple selection without a key can be a problem. DragAndDrop-EditingMode-Select.ogv https://www.datafilehost.com/d/4dd9a1b5 Thanks! |
|
|
The first tests with the new one click behavior works pretty well so far. I only noticed one minor error. If I drag a clip in the timeline with a click behavior to the far left, then I can drag this clip without resistance to the track boundary further to the left. https://streamable.com/51om7 |
|
|
GG is just brilliant. Really well solved with the one click to confirm and the second click to move. So both sides have their desired mouse behavior. Accidental moving is so unlikely and I don't always need an additional button to confirm the action. Thanks a lot! |
|
|
Sam: "Would it be possible to select a single clip/piece in the timeline with a simple left click without having to press CTRL?" You can now select or deselect with a single click of the left mouse button. "The purpose is to move them, therefore the grouping exists, to move it I don't need the Shift key". You can move without shift. All: Selecting and dragging have been changed to make it really easy to use and to drive. All you have to know is to select with a single click and then drag. A red colored highlight line says you can not drop here, a yellow colored line says you can drop here and it will be exactly next to that edit, and a green colored line says you can drop here. The same single left mouse click is used to deselect a clip. Andrea: the selection and highlighted lines are wider now. |
|
|
@IgorB - "When a group is done, and deselect all with "Ctrl+Shift+A", we can understand that it is a group by the same colours of the clips/edits or we have press Ctrl+LMB on it. Is it right?" If I understand the question correctly, Yes, all selected clips in the created group will be the same colour. However, if the group is un-grouped, the colour will be different because the colour is based on the Group ID number. It is sequential - the first group has Group ID one, the second has Group ID two, so it is incremented every time you make a group. @Andrea - the next GIT checkin contains the same line size for selected clips as the size of the Group size. @Sam - gg is working on potential options to see if he can get "single click selection" and group drag without shift. Have to get this fine-tuned before the end of the month builds so that we do not have to change them later. |
|
|
@Andrea Paz comment 0000299 good idea +1 On a 4K monitor, the selecting frame is indeed very thin. The frame for the grouping, on the other hand, looks very good. Well done. |
|
|
@PhyllisSmith But this is the default in all other NLEs. I only know it with one click. The following NLEs work with one click as I described it. PP, Davinic R. Kdenlive, OpenShot, Lightw. etc. The way Cinelerra is currently handling it is untypical, for users switching to the Cinelerra, this mouse behavior will be irritating. Would it be possible to make this setting optional? Add the option "One click activation" to the settings, then the users can decide for themselves instead of prescribing it. I would very much appreciate it, because for me this one extra step multiplies many times over for larger projects. I still have the undo key when accidentally moving clips. The same goes for moving grouped clips with the Shift key. The purpose is to move them, therefore the grouping exists, to move it I don't need the Shift key for my workflow to confirm the move again. To be honest, this constant confirmation of the actions by an additional key annoys me. If it is important to protect the existing clips, I would suggest making confirming with the Shift key optional ("One click activation" in the settings). I'm sure new Cinelerra users will thank you for this option because it will be 100% compatible with the other NLEs. |
|
|
I always ask the same thing, but would it be possible to increase the thickness of the selection/drag reticle? I always have the usual vision problems with thin lines. |
|
|
@Sam: the single left mouse click is too easy to accidentally use so gg does not want to change this; in fact I have accidentally dragged something with the single click while investigating this and was easily confused. @IgorB: there is a really good reason for not using Ctrl+G or any other character instead of the mouse. By using the mouse, you know for sure your position. But if you use Ctrl+G and your mouse is not already over the intended group, you will accidentally delete the wrong thing. |
|
|
I repeat which Sam said: fantastic! - If possible, as usually in others programs, I would like to suggest the shortcuts: "Ctrl+G" to group, and "Ctrl+Shift+G" to ungroup. Maybe those shortcuts could interfere with "g" (manual go to) shortcut. - When a group is done, and deselect all with "Ctrl+Shift+A", we can understand that it is a group by the same colours of the clips/edits or we have press Ctrl+LMB on it. Is it right? Thanks. (Ub16, built Dec 19 2018 18:48:27) |
|
|
Would it be possible to select a single clip/piece in the timeline with a simple left click without having to press CTRL? Adding more clips to this selection is then done with CTRL. I just wonder because I don't trigger any action in the timeline with a simple left click anyway, so I can use it to select a clip right away. It would be the logical approach for me. |
|
|
Absolutely fantastic! Thank you very much, you are the best. It works great. :-) |
|
|
Grouping has been added. Feedback is welcome as this is preliminary. An ubuntu16 and Mint18 will be in the download area under the testing directory so look for the date of 19 or 20. How to use: Temporary Group Edits - select the desired clips/edits with Ctrl-left mouse button - hold down shift while using the left mouse button to drag Permanent Group Edits Create a group: - select the desire clips/edits with Ctrl-left mouse button - hold down shift and double left mouse click to create a group Move a group: - select the group with Ctrl-left mouse button on any edit of the group to select as usual - hold down shift while using the left mouse button to drag Dissolve a group: - to ungroup, select any of the group edits/clips and shift double left mouse click to ungroup, they do remain selected Group colors are not muted. Arm/disarmed is respected. Keyframes and Plugins not allowed. Red highlight means you can not drop there and green means OK. |
|
|
(1) The Auto Select mode is no longer needed, because a new Copy & Past feature has been integrated. ________ (2) No problem, this feature is not so important. We can delete this request. ________ (3) I would be happy if we had a permanent grouping feature, so I could drop the temporary feature. The grouped elements don't necessarily have to be placed in the Clip Tab. It was just an idea because the grouping feature is based on it. I thought it would be easier for GG to do it with a clip. Basically, it's just like you say, the point is not to have to switch to the Resource window. The point was to combine several video and audio files in the timeline and move them as often as I like. Especially when recapitulating an almost finished video project you often have to change things because you're not satisfied with it yet. This makes it necessary to move certain videos and audio, sometimes several times until it fits. At the moment I can't move several videos at the same time, I can only copy and paste them. Grouping is nothing more than an advanced trimming function for multiple videos. With normal trimming you also move the cutting edge several times until it fits. It works the same with grouped videos. |
|
|
Looking through all of the notes to ascertain what may have gotten missed. (1) Sam quote in note 110: "To see that I am in "auto select track" mode, the color changes. Instead of displaying the locked tracks in red, the active track is green. The locked tracks are not displayed in red. Only one track is shown in green at a time. When I leave this mode it works as usual, the locked tracks are red, everything as usual." The above does not sound related to the copy/paste behavior. Consider opening a new issue for this if desirable. ----------------------------------------------- (2) Sam quote:"It would be good if a single clip is not yet selected, which means that no red frame is visible in the whole timeline, but I open the context menu with the middle mouse button on this clip, which then automatically forms a red frame, so I also select this clip. It saves one action." The problem with the above is if you already have a selection made and you open the context menu over some other clip, it will now add that to the selection and instead what you really wanted was to insert in the middle of that clip via paste. ----------------------------------------------- (3) Sam quote: "Grouping is intended for readjusting several clips." I am still trying to convince gg to add grouping. It seems like temporary grouping is already there by just copying the selected edits and pasting them elsewhere, is that correct? But I see the benefit of permanent grouping. What is the purpose of having a clip show up in the clips folder when you make a group? it is already identifiable and the goal was to save times by not having to go to the Resources window. |
|
|
> Andrea - I do not understand the comment you made earlier I'm sorry for disguise. It is only my mouse. The middle button is broken and don't play. Thanks for this new, fantastic features. |
|
|
@IgorBeg Haha. Thank you Igor. But I can reassure you, I am not a machine. ;-) This feature is very important to me and that's why I want to support Phyllis & GG to get the best results. I am very happy that the new feature works so well. Great job guys! By the way: Good music taste, I like Queen. :-) |
|
|
GG/Phyllis, sorry for the late, and many thanks for the built "Ub16" (built: Dec 14 2018). I tested it quickly, and I must to say: really^12 Fantastic. You have done a great work, again. And not only in Timeline, also in Resources (see 0000041 ). I saw that Sam has done a lot of tests. Sam, You have to be a Machine (by Queen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX6vPWW8n-I ). ;-) I have to test it more in deeper, but my first impression is Really Great. (Also Ctrl+Shift+a, many thanks) Thank you so much! |
|
|
1.) Thx, 2.) np 3.) YES! Thx. 4.) It still differs from the functionality of a real grouping function in other NLEs. It builds on the approach you described in the manual, but the crucial difference is that I can move the grouped elements at any time and as often as I want with real grouping. With your suggested detour, I have to drag the clip from the Resource window each time. Once I drop this clip in the Timeline, I can't move it again. Grouping is intended for readjusting several clips. Especially when recapitulating a video project, it happens very often that several clips have to be moved several times until the scene fits. In this respect, the path described in the manual is not sufficient. I hope you can have a look at my suggestion again, because I think it's relatively easy to program for GG, because the existing functions only have to be combined with each other to achieve the desired result. If you want to solve other tickets first, then it is no problem to wait a bit with the implementation. There is no hurry and there are other requests as well. |
|
|
What was in the last 2 GIT checkins: (1) first, the drag.jpg is correct as silence are edits too so you can select and drag them (2) as already noted, another bug was found and f8yoq error has been fixed, sorry about that (3) through use of the pulldown for Video and Audio, you can now "attach transitions" to all the selected tracks (4) grouping alternative via the method outlined in copypaste.pdf is hopefully acceptable BUT I have been tasked with deciding that after I look at the demos again and re-reading the notes/past email. Andrea - I do not understand the comment you made earlier "4) My Big problem is: I have not new voice in RMB popup menu. Why?" I think you were just not using the middle mouse button, but if there is still a problem, let us know. I saw this in your popup.mp4 demo. Thanks for all the early testing -- it is invaluable due to my being short of time. |
|
|
@PhyllisSchmith The latest fix has eliminated the previous bug, it works as expected. The idea with the cross-hairs is brilliant, you can only work in one track or across several tracks if I activate the cross-hairs without having to lock the tracks all the time. Ingenious! Please say that GG. :-) Thank you! |
|
|
Thank you very much for the corrections. However, copying relative positions across multiple tracks only works for me from time to time. Most of the time it doesn't work and Cinelerra loses the relative position of the copied items. I have added a video. The other corrections seem to work. https://streamable.com/f8yoq What I'm wondering is, between two videos, with some distance between them, there's a kind of black dummy clip. When I click with the mouse on this actually empty room and drag the mouse, Cinelerra shows me a clip frame. Is that normal? You can also see it in the video that I accidentally draw such a dummy clip.
drag.jpg (134,775 bytes) |
|
|
Grouping the video is a small extension of the "Create Clip" feature. I think the effort to program this is probably not that high, because you can use 90% of the "Create Clip" feature. My idea is that a clip is always created as soon as I group elements. There are only a few small changes that I describe as follows. ----temporary grouping---- I have selected video 1, 2 and 3. Video number 4 has no red frame, is not selected. Only the green numbers are selected. The numbers 1, 2 and 3 make a group. It is nothing else than a created clip, as if I would press the key "i" in the main window, only without video number four. This clip is only created temporarily. If I drag video number 1 or number 2 or number 3, it's like dragging a temporary clip from the Resources window to the timeline. This means the relative position of each of the three videos is not lost and I see a clip frame number 5 blue. It's the same frame I use when dragging a clip from the Resources window - Clips tab. As soon as I release this frame at one point I see exactly the same three videos with the relative positions. As soon as I deselect the three videos again, the temporary clip in the background will be deleted from the Clip tab of the Resource window. If I would select video number 1 and video number 2 again, then a temporary clip would be created at this moment, this clip I also see in the Resources window in the Clip tab. ---permanent grouping--- I mark video number 1 and video number 3, that means these two videos have a red frame. With a middle click I open the context menu and press Group, which creates a permanent grouping of these two videos. It's nothing more than creating a clip. I can move these two videos in the timeline. If I deselect these two videos, the internal clip will not be deleted, I see this clip also in the Clip tab of the Resources window, but this group clip is called "group xxx". I select only one video of this group in the timeline and all other videos of the group will be selected automatically. From this moment on I can move both videos again. If I click on "Ungroup" in the context menu, the permanent internal group clip becomes a temporary internal group clip. I still see the red frame around both videos. If I deselect both videos completely, the internal group clip will be deleted from the Clip tab of the Resource window in the background. It would be a significant improvement in handling and we would have the same feature as the most common other NLE's.
Grouping.jpg (140,611 bytes) |
|
|
Thank you all for testing and providing feedback/results. Another GIT checkin addresses the following: (1) the paste of multiples is now correctly maintaining relative positions (somehow the code which I tested to do that, got lost before last night's checkin). (2) Ctrl-A, M, C wording in the mmb popup has been changed to Ctrl-Shift-A, M, C (3) when you do a paste, the selection is automatically cleared, but the contents of the copy buffer is not (4) the "what you perceive as pasting on the wrong track" is performing correctly within the constraints of the code to make everything else work - basically there is silence above that clip that is actually getting pasted (will explain in a short document that is forthcoming) "you have to USE CTRL-left mouse to drag INSTEAD" (5) there is already "temporary" and "permanent" grouping abilities BUT they are different than what you expect - basically do your selection, go to the clip folder, right mouse button to get paste clip (will explain better in short document too) For the last point, I just found an anomaly that has to be addressed here yet when dragging. |
|
|
@Andrea Paz 4) => middle mouse button (mouse wheel) = context menu for copy & paste actions; right mouse button = context menu for track |
|
|
@Andrea Paz 1. => Your are right. It's a capital letter, A. Okay, we can forget that. I'll delete it. In my demo video I press "Copy pack" but correctly it should be "Copy" to copy the relative position but it still doesn't work. |
|
|
1) CTRL+A is OK. A = capital "a" => SHIFT + a. 2) The 9 shortcuts are OK for me. 3) I confirm Sam's note 0000187 and 0000188. They are good issue. 4) My Big problem is: I have not new voice in RMB popup menu. Why? popup.mp4 (2,236,791 bytes) |
|
|
I've discovered a little bug. It is not inserted at the position of the clip where I opened the context menu, but at the position where I click in the context menu. This means that if the context menu is so large that it covers two tracks, then it inserts the clip in the second track. https://streamable.com/s8mgk |
|
|
Thank you very much for the improvement. Inserting the clips at the mouse cursor position is a great thing. Finally, you can operate without having to lock the tracks all the time, which is one of the biggest time savings in the timeline. I noticed a few minor inconsistencies: The relative position of each clip within a track is saved, but not the relative position of multiple clips within multiple tracks. I added a video. In this video you can see that the relative position of the tracks to each other is lost. https://streamable.com/zrfsi It would also be good if the previous clips were deselected after each "paste" action. At the point where I insert the new clips I want to continue working and don't need to edit the old selected clips. It is also the most common practice for the other NLE's. I noticed one more thing. It would be good if a single clip is not yet selected, which means that no red frame is visible in the whole timeline, but I open the context menu with the middle mouse button on this clip, which then automatically forms a red frame, so I also select this clip. It saves one action. |
|
|
New GIT checkin as a result of your feedback. It needs more testing. All previous shortcuts except for ctrl-z are the same + Clear Select all Ctrl A (this is ctrl-shift-a as IgorBeghetto suggested for clearing all selected) Copy to buffer Ctrl c Cut and collapse Ctrl x Cut and clear Ctrl m (this is the cut and paste silence as suggested by Sam) Paste (Splice) Ctrl v Paste (Overwrite ) Ctrl b Copy Pack Ctrl C Cut Pack Ctrl z Mute Pack Ctrl M VERY IMPORTANT to know - you can either insert at the hairline cursor OR better yet to insert/paste without moving your playback position just click the middle mouse button on the place you want to do the insert and a red reticle comes up and marks that spot, pops up the menu to use. An ubuntu 16 static tar will be created for IgorBeghetto to test also. But I do not have the link yet so tomorrow, just look in the usual spot. |
|
|
@PhyllisSmith Would it still be possible to add the option "copy & clear" to the new context menu? I don't use the current option "copy & cut" much. |
|
|
Oops. Sorry Sam. |
|
|
@IgorBeg I absolutely agree with you. It makes no sense and should not be allowed. I also described this in my previous post, you were only seconds faster than me. :-) |
|
|
Almost all NLE's behave differently in this respect: Kdenlive doesn't let existing clips be overwritten, the clips stay in their position, that means I can't drop the grouped clips onto existing clips. No silence is inserted either. Premiere Pro simply overwrites the existing clips without inserting silence. Which I personally think is better. What would be good is, as soon as I start moving the grouped clips and additionally press the shift key, it automatically inserts silence at the point where I drop the clips. With this extension the user can decide if he wants to overwrite the existing clips or even insert silence (the total length of the grouped clips). By default it would be good if the existing clips were overwritten. Locked Tracks: Kdenlive doesn't care if a track is locked or not it still inserts the grouped clips into locked tracks. Which in my opinion is a logic error. Why do I have the ability to lock tracks from overwriting if I can still insert clips? I think this is a bug. Premiere, for example, doesn't allow it. I can't insert anything into locked tracks. This operating behavior makes more sense. |
|
|
@Sam IMHO, past on Disarmed track should not be allowed. Otherwise, what does Armed/Disarmed means? In your demo https://streamable.com/j7fne in the 2th part of the video, Kdenlive wrong, for me. If a track is blocked, you can not write on it. Lightworks works very similar like Cinelerra-GG, and if a track is disarmed you can not write on it, nothing. Or, a new mode "On the Fly" is needed to bypass the standard behaviour. (Hey guys, I am going to sleep) |
|
|
Question - when you drop multiple clips maintaining their positions relative to each other, do you insert silence to make a spot for them? that is, move any clips that are in the way over further to the right? If not, do you drop over the existing clips in that area? And from one of the demos, it looks like you just ignore whether or not the track is locked or not? |
|
|
To 1) question, A) I would suggest Ctrl+Shift+a to deselect all. (also to "Deselects any highlighted files" on Load files... instead of Ctrl-z, I would suggest Ctrl+Shift+a) B) Or, only "a" key with toggle; now, pressing "a" key, select everything on the timeline, and if you press "a" key again, deselect everything. Then it could also be that to deselect the selected clips we should press "a" twice. C) Or, once you have pasted the selected clips are resetted. For you all, what is the most intuitive for a user? To 2) question "is this expected behavior?". I would expect the distance between the pasted edits to be as in the source (in my example before the result is AAA-----DDD). There are only my opinion, of course. I tried Drag and Drop with or without Ctrl. It works on new project file, like you (Phyllis) said. In old my project not. Booh (only italian language? And/Or Comics) Thanks. |
|
|
Inserting several clips directly below each other is not what I expect. In Kdenlive, OpenShot, Premiere and Resolve the relative position to each other is also considered. It would be great to copy the position as well. Otherwise it loses one of the most important arguments for copying multiple clips. Here is a video how it works in Kdenlive. https://streamable.com/j7fne Cinelerra already knows how to insert grouped clips by creating a clip: Look at the video, there you can see that the relative position of the grouped clips is not lost: https://streamable.com/c0aba What's missing is the temporary grouping of the clips by just creating the red frame: https://streamable.com/wgkb0 Another good thing would be a permanent grouping (standard in Kdenlive, Resolve and Premiere): https://streamable.com/0tljr In my opinion, Kdenlive did an excellent job of inserting a single clip. It inserts the single clip at the point where the mouse cursor is. I don't have to start locking individual tracks again and don't have to move the playback position to insert it at the right position. I simply move the mouse to the desired position and press insert, that's it. With grouped insert, I would do the same if it was technically feasible. Here is a video: https://streamable.com/23x8v Sam |
|
|
1) not currently a shortcut to deselect all -- I will ask GG to add one as it looks pretty handy. Do you have a shortcut in mind? 2) yes this is working as programmed; is this expected behavior? 3) Drag and Drop (assuming no armed tracks) drags ALL aligned tracks together. Ctrl and Drop drags only ONE track that you are on. Try it like this - load a normal single video that has 2 audio tracks and do not lock any tracks. Drag only with your cursor on the first track and all 3 tracks move. Ctrl-Drag on the first track and only the video track moves. The Ctrl-Drag has worked all along and would have been handy for user to know about all these years. THIS WAS THE LOST RECIPE! The Ctrl-drag was added by Adam, the original author, but apparently got "lost". You should have seen the surprise on GG's face when he started working on the code and re-discovered this! Still waiting for feedback on One and Two on the end of my last note. |
|
|
I agree completely with Sam. Like Sam said, A-MA-ZING! Great job, great idea. (and many thanks for the build "ub16") The old and the new features without conflicts. Some questions (Drag and Drop mode ONLY): 1) -1.a) I select more clips on the Disarmed track2 with Ctrl+LMB; -1.b) press Ctrl+c, to copy to buffer; -1.c) move the cursor position on the timeline in the new position on the Armed track1; -1.d) press Ctrl+V, to paste from buffer; The selected clips have always the red rectangle to show that them are still selected. To deselect them I have to do Ctrl+LMB over one by one. Is there a command/shortcut to Deselect all? 2) -2.a) I select more clips, not join one to each other, on the Disarmed track2 with Ctrl+LMB. For example I select only AAA and DDD on AAABBCCCDDD (where A, B, C, D, are frames of different videos on the same track); -2.b) press Ctrl+c, to copy to buffer; -2.c) move the cursor position on the timeline in the new position on the Armed track1; -2.d) press Ctrl+V, to paste from buffer; The pasted clips are join one to each other and there isn't the mute spaces in between. I see, on timeline, AAADDD and not AAA-----DDD. Is It right? 3) What is the differences between "Drag and Drop" and "Ctrl and Drag"? Seems to me that they work in the same way. Thank you. |
|
|
Wow, what a surprise. I didn't expect that at all. Awesome! The first impression, it works amazing. It is exactly as I imagined it to be. I don't notice any speed loss at all. Copying, pasting and deleting it just works great. Thanks a lot! I really enjoyed it. First I will drink a glass of mulled wine on your well-being. Thank you :-) P.S.: Finally Cinelerra becomes a real alternative to the other editing programs. |
|
|
A good start on this issue has been checked into the GIT repository. We will need feedback on a couple of things AND nothing is cast in stone (except for the shortcuts which are consistent with other shortcuts doing similar operations!). Our usual testing has been done, but be sure to DO BACKUPS in case something goes wrong. Find in Resources, User Title, and Show Edit HAVE MOVED to the Edit popup from its original place in the Track popup. Right mouse button on a track to get the Track popup just like before. Middle mouse button on a track to get the Edit popup. Drag and Drop Mode ONLY – what users refer to as “clips”, developer refers to as “edits”. Ctrl and Drag = currently moves a single edit (THIS WAS THE LOST RECIPE and we found no documentation on this and I do not know if anyone knew it was there - Adam has this code already in) MMB on timeline brings up Edits Popup with a “cheat sheet” for Edit Manipulation Ctrl-left mouse button selects and draws a red box around this selection; ctrl-lmb again reverses Ctrl-m Clear - delete and insert silence in its place Ctrl-DEL Delete - delete and move over other edits into its place Ctrl-c Copy to a buffer Ctrl-x Cut puts into the buffer and then deletes Ctrl-z Copy Cut puts into the buffer and then deletes & replaces with silence Here are the design decisions we made that can be changed as we just picked them. So let us know what you want instead. 1) a paste is always pasted to the first Video or Audio track 2) if you move multiple edits, they are loaded onto track 1 and down AND lined up right under each other Also, no code has been written to, for example, "attach multiple transitions" to all selected edits. |
|
|
Sam, I agree with you , if you don't change the current working methods. It seems to me that your 0000110 note is very good, like also confirmed by Andrea. |
|
|
Good idea. +1 |
|
|
Hi Phyllis, I've been thinking about how I could have my desired feature without you having to make great code changes. I came up with something. It's basically just a small feature with a big impact for me. What annoys me the most is locking the tracks. I want to copy something from track one to track two and have to lock the other tracks each time. Locking the tracks is the problem. Many of my problems would be gone if I automatically activate the track I am currently in with the mouse and the others are locked. As an example: I have three video tracks that already contain video clips. I want to copy something from the first track to the second track. The new feature locks tracks two and three because I'm in the first track with the mouse. In the first track I copy my section, then I go to the end of the second track and paste it there because the first and third tracks were locked automatically because I'm in the second track with the mouse. I can activate and deactivate this "auto select track" with the key combination "CTRL + Tab". It's only a small feature, but it would give me a lot in terms of my workflow. That would be a big relief for me. With this feature the following problems are solved too, deleting a single clip without affecting the other tracks would work from now on. I double click on the clip in the timeline and press DEL. All other clips in the other tracks remain untouched, only this single clip is deleted, the other tracks are locked by the "auto select track" feature. As soon as I no longer need this feature, I deactivate it with "CTRL + Tab" and have the standard mode. Update: I forgot something else, if it wasn't too much trouble. To see that I am in "auto select track" mode, the color changes. Instead of displaying the locked tracks in red, the active track is green. The locked tracks are not displayed in red. Only one track is shown in green at a time. When I leave this mode it works as usual, the locked tracks are red, everything as usual. |
|
|
I understand that very well. Nevertheless, this is a KO criteria for professional editors. The current way of working in the Cinelerra timeline is very old-fashioned to cumbersome. If I have the choice to edit a big video project then certainly not with Cinelerra, because exactly this missing feature almost doubles and triples the working time. When recapitulating my video work, I can't even delete a single clip from the timeline, because I don't like them any more without having to lock the other tracks all the time (that mostly annoys me). With other programs I don't have to lock anything, but mark the clip and press DEL. I have a suggestion how to do this without having to change too much of the behavior: The current operation would remain as it is. A traditional editor doesn't have to change for the following reasons: 1 (Drag and Drop editing mode) A single click on a clip in the Timeline only marks the only clip that doesn't change the current handling. 2. A double click on the clip in the timeline activates a whole section, that means the single clip is no longer framed but a whole section over several tracks. This means that the current behavior remains the same. 3. I can already click on a single clip in the timeline with the right mouse button and e.g. click on "Find in Resources" and the respective file will be displayed in the Media tab. This means that I can now already perform a clip-related action in the timeline, why an additional delete function can not work now is not quite conclusive to me. Also here nothing much new must be made, but only a function somewhat be extended. During the deletion process the other tracks are locked for a short time and unlocked again after the deletion process. The same would be the case with several clips, only that the deletion process would have to be carried out clip by clip and I would then have a delete function over several clips. 4. You could also copy a single clip or several clips with the "Create Clip" feature, or use this function without having to reinvent the wheel. I can already copy over several tracks. By marking a section with several tracks and then clicking on Create Clip. This way you can copy several clips over several tracks and paste them elsewhere. My solution would be to modify this function so that it simply omits the area that is not displayed as a marked clip. Again, you wouldn't have to invent anything new. 5. The Group feature also builds on the Create Clip feature. It is nothing more than an extended function of it. I wouldn't insist on this point if I hadn't experienced for myself how awkward it is to work in Cinelerra timeline. That's a huge shortcoming. Kdenlive and all other NLE's master these simple, in my opinion basic functions of a modern software. Only Cinelerra unfortunately not. I hope you reconsider my suggestion again, it is very important to me personally, because otherwise we have great features in Cinelerra, but it does not even master basic functions. |
|
|
The main issue with this is that we do not want to interfere with the current working methods. And do not want to insert a whole bunch of "if statements" into the program which just slows it down -- this code is pretty involved. So far gg has not come up with an acceptable solution. I will study this more diligently since the priority is HIGH and continue to make suggestions. Maybe I can come up with a good idea that works and he can implement. |
- Anonymous
